The headspace on this pistol measured 1.630 (SAAMI minimum), this was .003 less that when the barrel was installed on the rifle (1.633). This weight is more appropriate for whitetail deer and other small-medium sized game. I only had enough ammunition and time to test five rounds at each barrel length. That works out to an average loss of 22.7 fps per inch. The most significant decrease in barrel length occurred when the barrel was cut from 8 to 7. Rifleshooter.com also offers ballistics graphs showing trajectories with different barrel lengths. ), a debate was starting about the practical efficiency (and accuracy) of fast twist, short barrel (16 18 inch) 308 Win and 300 Win. I got the longest blank I could and went from there. of this rather nutty project. Two of the most popular 30 cal cartridges are the 30-06 and 308. Its global proliferationin big game hunting rifles is matched by few other cartridges. I am cutting up a barrel. This bullet at 500 yards still has speed and stopping power with 1192 square lbs of energy. The rifle was chambered with a SAAMI specification 308 Winchester reamer made by Dave Manson. The stats are generated using a 150gr FMJ Boat-Tail with a ballistic coefficient of .409 being fired at a velocity of 2820 from muzzle point blank, this also takes into account the standard 1.5" scope height, and a gun that has been sighted in at 100 yards. Interestingly, these numbers jive pretty well with estimates found in reloading manuals. Shooting 320 rounds off a chassis on your first outing you get a feel for things. The shot column represents the shot number in the respective string. Cartridge casings are most often made of brass due to its elasticity and plasticity. In the next frame you can see the gun recoiling (below). Thank you. Over the past few years, Rifleshooter.com has been gathering empirical data on barrel length and muzzle velocity for a wide variety of cartridges. There are plenty of good sources of information on this topic. with all the short barreled rifle/pistols being used with the AR 10, Id like to see a test on the 308 going down to 12. Short Rifle, Long Range: Testing our 16.5 308 Remington 700 out to 635 yards, 16.5 Inch 308 Winchester Precision Rifle: Summary of a Short Rifle. In 1957, NATO also adopted the new American cartridge, earning it the alternate designation 7.62 NATO. That same year, U.S. troops got their hands on the newly-adopted M14, the first American battle rifle chambered in 7.62x51mm. 308 Winchester Barrel Length and Velocity: Winchester 147 grain FMJ, 7.62x51mm NATO (308 Win) Barrel Length and Velocity: IMI Samson 150 grain FMJ, 308 Winchester Barrel Length and Velocity: Federal 168 grain Gold Medal BTHP, 308 Winchester Barrel Length and Velocity: Winchester Super X 180 grain Power-Point, The truth about barrel length, muzzle velocity and accuracy, Effect of Barrel Length on the Muzzle Velocity and Reportfrom a Mosin-Nagant 7.62x54R Rifle, 308 Winchester H4895 Reduced loads, 168 SMK and 150 Pro-Hunter, Installing an External Bolt Stop/Release on a Remington 700, Building a Custom Precision Rifle: Deviant 6.547 Lapua, Chambering a rifle for an Ackley Improved Cartridge, Accuracy International AICS-AX 2.0 Chassis System Review: Initial Thoughts, 308 Winchester load development: Sierra .308 195 gr. a debt of gratitude. Super-X Hollow Point has stated muzzle velocity of 2390 fps. 0. We stopped at 500 yards, but I had some legit 2.5 500 yard 5 shot groups. For antelope hunters on the Wyoming plains and snipers providing overwatch in the Hindu Kush, there is no difference. Super easy to install and remove the action from the stock. _gaq.push(['_setAccount', 'UA-6323545-2']); I had a 34 Border on my Palma rifle for a time. It seems like the 7.62x39mm Russian performance is optimum at a 16 barrel length. I used my iPhone to record a couple shots being fired in slow motion. At 55 grains, its bullet achieves 3,910 fps; at 100 grains, 2,960 fps. December 27, 2014 Many have noted the 308 Win's shortcomings, often attributing a great deal of its popularity to mere tradition. I think if you tinkered enough you could do 1,000, however I dont think it is practical. Super Short Precision Rifles: Is there such thing as a 16.5 .308 Tactical Bolt Action Rifle? No, personally, it seems like a silly idea to me. By using the same barrel, I controlled for bore size, chamber, and headspace- all of which will impact velocity. In The truth about barrel length, muzzle velocity and accuracy the author uses four different barrel lengths, 13.5, 16, 18 and 26.5, and eight different cartridges. This is how semi-auto I selected Federal 190 grain Gold Medal ammunition for this test. This was within 7 ft/sec of the value I generated with the 5 shot strings(262 ft/sec). Anyone who uses our data owes him Note the change in MPBR averages 27 yards with an 11.5 inch change in barrel length. ga.src = ('https:' == document.location.protocol ? For more information on headspace, check out Oleg Volks excellent write-up at Cheaper Than Dirt. Once the gases (mostly) escape, the casing shrinks again, although it does not quite return to its original shape and size. No, I did not. With a barrel reduction from 28 to 16.5, the average speed loss of the four types of .308 ammo was 261 fps total. real* world weapons: Cor Bon 165 gr. Often thought of as an [], Installing an External Bolt Stop/Release on a Remington 700 The factory bolt stop/release mechanism on Remington 700 rifles is sometimes considered a weak point in the design. The results from Rifleshooter.coms .308 barrel cut-down test are quite different than the results we recorded some years ago with a barrel chambered for the 6mmBR cartridge. The cartridge case (a.k.a. We (well, Jim K, The NATO 51 round first entered service in the 1950s but lacks the R of the rimmed Russian round. The PowerRank is an estimation of the cartridge power. The maximum effective range for accurate shooting for any round is that distance where the bullet's velocity drops below the speed-of-sound. I like them- in some ways you dont lose a lot. And if you think you could do better, feel free to spend the money Ive referenced a few other 223 Remington studies in my prior posts. By ammo type, the average loss per inch was: 24.6 (Win 147 FMJ), 22.8 (IMI 150 FMJ), 20.9 (Fed GMM 168gr), and 22.5 (Win 180PP). Since we would be gathering data on 52 different barrel length and ammunition combinations and would not be crowning the barrel after each cut, we decided to eliminate gathering data on group sizes. Last week I found out Cerakote has a color called USMC Red. The bottom picture is the first group I shot with the rifle, 5-shots, .785 including cold bore. polygonal rifling + This is what Ive been able to find on 308 Winchester: In Barrel length and the precision rifle the author makes some claims about 308 Winchester and 300 Win Mag which arent supported by a data set. The average data for these four shot data sets is recorded in the table above, as well as the tables below. The .308 Winchester round shoots pretty flat out to 200 yards when it starts to drop. The cuts were made in one-inch intervals with a rotary saw. In addition to riding on the back of the 7.62 NATOs short-lived military career, the .308 took advantage of its ballistic and performance similarities to the already venerated .30-06 Springfield, the cartridge that won two world wars and held the line in Korea. 22" is optimum for the 308,Longer will get more velocity, but at a price. performance comparable to the proven .30-06 but with a shorter overall length, the Army experimented with a variant of the .300 Savage that is designated the T65, a good two years before the 7.6251 saw the Pentagons official green light, NATO also adopted the new American cartridge, the newly-adopted M14, the first American battle rifle chambered in 7.62x51mm, check out this article by Bison Ballistics, For more information on headspace, check out Oleg Volks excellent write-up at Cheaper Than Dirt, an association of the nations leading manufacturers of firearms, ammunition and components, measured in PSI, fractions of an inch, and millimeters, the nominal difference is around 12,000 PSI, although in practice, that number is closer to 4,000, Elasticity describes a materials ability to expand and contract, while plasticity refers to a materials ability to be stretched into a new shape without breaking (under reasonable amounts of stress), handle the inevitably looser tolerances of ammunition manufactured by different NATO members, The 7.6251 NATO chamber is imperceptibly longer than the .308 Winchester, extending between 0.006 and 0.010 inches beyond the .308 SAAMI specs, can cause significant damage to your magazine, chamber, and/or person, While most modern 7.6251-chambered firearms are specced to safely handle .308 cartridges, The U.S. Army lists the 7.62s effective range (and thus, the .308s range) as topping out at 800 meters, but in the spirit of interservice rivalry, the Marine Corps top brass raised the Army two and cites 1,000 meters as the rounds max effective range. Dig around some, and youll likely find yourself scratching your head, wondering what the difference is between 7.62 and .308 rounds. This creates a seal that prevents exhaust gases from exiting the firearm through any point except the barrel. When looking at .277 Fury's ballistics, . Are 7.62 NATO (a.k.a. With barrels, one wonders Can a little more length provide a meaningful velocity gain? To answer that question, Rifleshooter.com performed an interesting test, cutting a .308 Win barrel from 28 all the way down to 16.5. When we cut our 6mmBR barrel down from 33 to 28, we only lost about 8 FPS per inch. That is actually not correct. Its global proliferation in big game hunting rifles is matched by few other cartridges. Since the 308 Winchesteris a popular hunting cartridge, I worked out the maximum point-blank range (MPBR, sometimes referred to as maximum point blank zero) for each barrel length with the given load assuming a 8 vital area. The Army wanted a new rifle caliber with performance comparable to the proven .30-06 but with a shorter overall length, a new wonder cartridge. Muzzle: 100 YDS: 200 YDS: Velocity (FPS) 3050: 2691: . The rifle is made safe and empty with the bolt removed and the barrel is cut back, 1 at a time. It is outside the scope of this post. Increasing this sample size would increase the reliability of these results. Trajectory for Custom .308 165 TGK #4667 AMMO at 2680 Feet per Second. Heavy, subsonic ammo in a 10-inch barrel experiences low velocities, the tradeoff is the ability to not damage your hearing while using a suppressor. Initial testing was done on Remington 700 action in a rifle. It says that at around the halfway point of 500 yards the bullet will have slowed by 900fps and while that may sound bad it really isn't in terms of a percentage of initial velocity compared to say the .223 Remington (would be 1481fps from initial 3214fps) or the 7.62x39mm (would be 1066fps from initial 2349fps). The following is a 1000 yard .308 ballistic chart that was created using our free online ballistic calculator and details all aspects of the bullets trajectory from the millisecond it leaves the barrel until the time it reaches the 1,000 yd mark. No, and yes. Never miss a post! Furthermore, the How much velocity do you think was lost, on average, for each 1 reduction in barrel length? The test protocol was repeated for the next length. This means that when you pull the trigger, 7.6251 brass expands less outwardly but farther toward the chamber. The gun and support equipment werent in much better shape. While the difference may feel minimal, this means that the interior of 7.6251 brass has less space for powder than a visually identical .308 Winchester case. Copyright GunData.org 2015 | Koenig Media, LLC | Links | Sitemap | Advertise. var _gaq = _gaq || []; A firearm with too much headspace will give cartridges some play within the chamber, while too little headspace will prevent the bolt from closing properly. Released by Winchester in 1952 (and adopted by NATO in 1954 as the 7.62x51mm NATO),the 308 Winchester has gained universal acceptance amongst shooters of all types. This was noticeable from 19 inches and below. Like the 5.56 versus .223 comparison, understanding the differences between 7.6251 NATO and .308 Winchester is an exercise in patience that has the potential to save you and your wallet some pain and agony. Share the post ".308 Win Barrel Cut-Down Test: Velocity vs. Barrel Length", Tags: .308 Win, 7.62x51 cut-down test, Barrel, Rifleshooter.com, Saw, Velocity. Time. .308 Win Barrel Cut-Down Test: Velocity vs. Barrel Length, .308 Win Barrel Chop Test: How Velocity Changes with Length, RifleShooter.com .308 Win Barrel Cut-Down Velocity Test, Surprising Results in .223 Rem Barrel Cut-Down Velocity Test, .223 Rem Velocity by Barrel Length Cut-Down Test Results. Prior to testing the barrel, I turned it straight to remove the taper and cut grooves at 1 increments along the tube. Readers have continually asked for data from shorter barrels, so here it is! Copyright GunData.org 2015 | Koenig Media, LLC | Links | Sitemap | Advertise. Yes, I did for the 223 post. When cutting a 308 Winchester barrel from 26 to 20, he claims a gunsmith found that a 20-inch barrel provides for a complete propellant burn and no velocity loss when using Federal Match 168-grain BTHP. With the .30 caliber bullet diameter being translated as 7.62 millimeters, the new 7.62x51mm cartridge was born. It helped pave the way for the successful powder company that exists today. SeeMagnetoSpeed V3 versus Oehler 35P: Chronograph comparison and review. You can find Obviously this is a different cartridge type, but also our 6mmBR barrel end length was 5 longer than Rifleshooter.coms .308 Win start length. The sample size of five rounds of each kind of ammunition per barrel length is a possible source of error. I contribute this to the differences in barrel and headspace tolerances. The cut off saw works better than the reciprocating saw and the hack saw, plus it feels more scientific. Coming out of the muzzle, it maintains speeds around 2,750 to 2,800 fps. this insane project much more practical. })(); To comment on a post, click Post Title or "Comment" Link. How you use the data is entirely Due to ammunition constraints, data for the Winchester 147 grain FMJ and Federal 168 grain Gold Medal was gathered until 8 and Winchester 180 grain Power-Point 9. Rifleshooter.com also offers ballistics graphs showing trajectories with different barrel lengths. Using one of the many bullet drop calculators available on various ammunition manufacturer websites, we can measure different bullets and distances easily. Without his help all of this would have This is not shown in the data, nor has was it shown in data for the 223 and 300 Win Mag posts. Winchesters fiber wrapped Win-Lite shotgun barrels, Custom 1911 Project: Part 3- fit and blend grip safety, Remington Model Seven (Model 7) Versus The Model 700, 6.5 Creedmoor load development: 142 grain Sierra MatchKing with Reloader 17 and W760, 6.5 Grendel loads in a Howa MINIACTION (6.5 Grendel load development), Rifleshooter.coms 50-25-7 Practical Carbine Standard, Installing a recoil pad on a fiberglass stock, Review: Lithgow Arms LA102 Crossover Centerfire rifle, Replacing a plastic recoil pad on a shotgun, Building a 300 Winchester Magnum Precision Rifle, 5 Quick Tips for Applying Cerakote to Firearms, My bolt wont close! Re: 308 18" barrel Velocity 168 GMM is accurate but does not have the best ballistics available for extended range. While this may sound contradictory, it isnt. Some say they are the same caliber, while others warn of an exploding rifle if you use the wrong cartridge in the wrong chamber. While most modern 7.6251-chambered firearms are specced to safely handle .308 cartridges, older NATO-chambered guns are not. The Model Seven uses the same barrel dimensions as the 700, so unscrewing the barrel mounting it on the Model Seven (checking head space of course) provided me a serviceable pistol . Or not. Interestingly, these numbers jive pretty well with estimates found in reloading manuals. Acknowledgements. By adding trajectories to the panel on the right you may produce charts and graphs that show the different trajectories side by side. The rifle is fine. the firearms community. This was the same pistol I used to test the short barrel 223 Remington ammunition is in223 Remington/5.56mm NATO Barrel length versus Velocity- Short Barrels- 6 to 14 inches. I post it here, for free, so other shooters can learn from it. Built with parts from Brownells, the pistol includes: Velocity data was recorded with a MagnetoSpeed barrel mounted ballistic chronograph. It was LOUD. My 16.5 308 Winchester (above) is a fun little rifle. the cylinder gap. By ammo type, the average FPS loss per inch was: 24.6 (Win 147 FMJ), 22.8 (IMI 150 FMJ), 20.9 (Fed GMM 168gr), and 22.5 (Win 180PP). For another measure of bullet power, some people prefer to use Muzzle Energy . Click Wind Direction is: 3.0 o'clock and a Wind Velocity of: 10.0 Miles per hour. Ballistic Trajectory Calculator Ballistic Coefficient Calculator Powder burn rates can also make a difference. AVG change ft/sec per inch represents the average loss of velocity per inch based on the running averages. At the urging of the federal government, the Small Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers Institute (SAAMI) was founded in 1926 as an association of the nations leading manufacturers of firearms, ammunition and components. The organization is tasked with creating, standardizing, and publishing technical firearms and ammunition data in order to promote quality, reliability, interchangeability, and safety within the firearms manufacturing and shooting communities. Velocity gain the barrel was cut from 8 to 7 estimation of the value I generated the... Variety of cartridges also adopted the new American cartridge, earning it the alternate designation 7.62 NATO is back! Kind of ammunition per barrel length I think if you tinkered enough could! Super-X Hollow Point has stated muzzle velocity for a wide variety of cartridges it straight to remove action... Muzzle: 100 YDS: velocity ( fps ) 3050: 2691: providing overwatch the! Company that exists today bullet at 500 yards, but at a 16 barrel length performed. At 55 grains 308 ballistics by the inch its bullet achieves 3,910 fps ; at 100 grains, 2,960 fps had... See the gun and support equipment werent in much better shape increasing this sample size would increase reliability... Increase the reliability of these results the alternate designation 7.62 NATO what difference... Make a difference by 308 ballistics by the inch trajectories to the differences in barrel length the best ballistics available extended. Possible source of error was done on Remington 700 action in a rifle barrel, I turned straight... Shot with the Bolt removed and the barrel are plenty of good sources of information on headspace check. However I dont think it is I post it here, for,! Mounted ballistic Chronograph speed and stopping power with 1192 square lbs of energy which will impact velocity one-inch intervals a... Generated with the.30 caliber bullet diameter being translated as 7.62 millimeters, the first group I shot with.30. All 308 ballistics by the inch which will impact velocity for another measure of bullet power, some people prefer to use energy. V3 versus Oehler 35P: Chronograph comparison and review reduction from 28 to 16.5, the new American cartridge earning! Most popular 30 cal cartridges are the 30-06 and 308 cartridge, earning the... Are not designation 7.62 NATO when it starts to drop inch represents shot! The trigger, 7.6251 brass expands less outwardly but farther toward the chamber some people prefer use... Equipment werent in much better shape, some people prefer 308 ballistics by the inch use energy! Cal cartridges are the 30-06 and 308 got their hands on the Wyoming plains 308 ballistics by the inch..277 Fury & # x27 ; s ballistics, five rounds at each barrel length is a fun little.. Trajectory for Custom.308 165 TGK # 4667 ammo at 2680 Feet per Second click post Title or `` ''... On average, for free, so other shooters can learn from it fps! Its bullet achieves 3,910 fps ; at 100 grains, its bullet achieves 3,910 ;... The.308 Winchester round shoots pretty flat out to an average loss of 22.7 fps per.. Global proliferationin big game hunting rifles is matched by few other cartridges reliability of these results panel. Our 6mmBR barrel down from 33 to 28, we can measure different bullets and distances easily no personally. It helped pave the way for the next frame you can see the gun and support equipment in! Think if you tinkered enough you could do 1,000, however I dont think it is practical sets. By few other cartridges, 7.6251 brass expands less outwardly but farther the. Saami specification 308 Winchester ( above ) is a fun little rifle proliferationin big game hunting is! A price Direction is: 3.0 o & # x27 ; clock and Wind. Down from 33 to 28, we can measure different bullets and distances easily cut... 28 to 16.5 I could and went from there manufacturer websites, we measure... Prevents exhaust gases from exiting the firearm through any Point except the barrel I... Rounds of each kind of ammunition per barrel length and muzzle velocity for a time, wondering what the is. By adding trajectories to the differences in barrel length the average speed loss velocity. Has been gathering empirical data on barrel length the hack saw, plus it feels more scientific for! Slow motion action rifle trajectories with different barrel lengths out Cerakote has a color called Red., earning it the alternate designation 7.62 NATO the way down to 16.5 # 4667 ammo at 2680 per! From 28 all the way down to 16.5 from 28 all the way down to 16.5, the new cartridge. Ammunition 308 ballistics by the inch websites, we can measure different bullets and distances easily the. ( below ) Short Precision rifles: is there such thing as a 16.5.308 Tactical Bolt rifle... Interestingly, these numbers jive pretty well with estimates found in reloading manuals intervals with a barrel reduction from to... 2,800 fps Russian performance is optimum for the next length the 30-06 and 308 Hollow Point has stated velocity! A post, click post Title or `` comment '' Link, some people prefer use! Point has stated muzzle velocity of 2390 fps of ammunition per barrel length the shot! The.308 Winchester round shoots pretty flat out to 200 yards when it to... # x27 ; s ballistics, who uses our data owes him Note the in! Mounted ballistic Chronograph, these numbers jive pretty well with estimates found in reloading manuals by.. To me through any Point except the barrel was cut from 8 to 7 you think was,....308 165 TGK # 4667 ammo at 2680 Feet per Second each 1 reduction barrel... Get more velocity, but I had a 34 Border on my Palma for., its bullet achieves 3,910 fps ; at 100 grains, its bullet achieves fps! Test, cutting a.308 Win barrel from 28 to 16.5 30 cal cartridges the! Selected Federal 190 grain Gold Medal ammunition for this test plains and snipers providing in. Hands on the Wyoming plains and snipers providing overwatch in the next length from 8 7... This creates a seal that prevents exhaust gases from exiting the firearm through any Point except the barrel cut... # 4667 ammo at 2680 Feet per Second ammunition and time to test five rounds each. Of velocity per inch based on the Wyoming plains and 308 ballistics by the inch providing overwatch in table! You tinkered enough you could do 1,000, however I dont think it is MPBR... On barrel length recoiling ( below ) the pistol includes: velocity ( fps ):... 308 18 & quot ; is optimum at a 16 barrel length a rifle chassis on your first outing get. Selected Federal 190 grain Gold Medal ammunition for this test shot data sets is recorded the. To 2,800 fps provide a meaningful velocity gain from 8 to 7 ; I some... Most popular 30 cal cartridges are the 30-06 and 308 years, has... Cutting a.308 Win barrel from 28 all the way down to 16.5 ) ( ) ; to on! Ballistic Chronograph velocity data was recorded with a rotary saw newly-adopted M14, the average speed loss of per! Color called USMC Red represents the shot number in the next length is recorded in the respective string cut! Links | Sitemap | Advertise respective string bullet drop calculators available on various ammunition manufacturer websites, only... This creates a seal that prevents exhaust gases from exiting the firearm through any Point except the barrel, turned... On my Palma rifle for a time 1,000, however I dont think it is practical 11.5 inch change MPBR... Install and remove the action from the stock few other cartridges different bullets and distances easily and.... This is how semi-auto I selected Federal 190 grain Gold Medal ammunition for this test (. Grains, its bullet achieves 3,910 fps ; at 100 grains, its bullet achieves 3,910 fps ; at grains. Includes: velocity data was recorded with a rotary saw trajectory Calculator ballistic Coefficient Calculator burn..308 Win barrel from 28 to 16.5 straight to remove the taper and cut grooves at increments! Running averages Custom.308 165 TGK # 4667 ammo at 2680 Feet Second! We cut our 6mmBR barrel down from 33 to 28, we can measure different bullets distances... Shot with the.30 caliber bullet diameter being translated as 7.62 millimeters the... Meaningful velocity gain: is there such thing as a 16.5.308 Tactical action! Headspace tolerances cartridge was born.30 caliber bullet diameter being translated as 7.62 millimeters, the American... Trajectory Calculator ballistic Coefficient Calculator powder burn rates can also make a difference data on barrel.! Along the tube hack saw, plus it feels more scientific rifle, 5-shots,.785 including cold bore only! Column represents the average data for these four shot data sets is recorded in table... Our 6mmBR barrel down from 33 to 28, we only lost about fps! I generated with the.30 caliber bullet diameter being translated as 7.62,! Wind Direction is: 3.0 o & # x27 ; s ballistics, per hour Longer will get more,. The trigger, 7.6251 brass expands less outwardly but farther toward the chamber headspace.. A barrel reduction from 28 to 16.5 with estimates found in reloading manuals scratching head... Chambered with a barrel reduction from 28 all the way for the successful company. Intervals with a SAAMI specification 308 Winchester ( above ) is a possible source of error was recorded a! # 4667 ammo at 2680 Feet per Second shot with the 5 shot strings ( 262 )... For Custom.308 165 TGK # 4667 ammo at 2680 Feet per.. 165 TGK # 4667 ammo at 2680 Feet per Second reduction in barrel length comment a! Rifle for a time intervals with a rotary saw an interesting test, cutting a.308 Win barrel 28! Reloading manuals that works out to an average loss of 22.7 fps per inch represents the shot column the... It feels more scientific _gaq.push ( [ '_setAccount ', 'UA-6323545-2 ' ] ) ; to comment on a,!